Ruth Wilson (moderator):

Welcome to the UKRC blog, Anne. You give a tantalising glimpse into virtual worlds I know nothing of. Despite having a 15 year old son, I am still in the shallow end of online environments. However, at UKRC we have held a few very successful events in Second Life, and will go there again with a group of women engineers at the end of this year.

How do you think gender equality plays out online? In my experience of Second Life, there are highly sexualised and stereotypical avatars on the one hand, and a complete disregard for appearance on the other. In addition, some people completely abandon the human form. How do you think online work environments should handle the issue of appearance?

Anne Grikitis:

The issue of gender in cyberspace is a complex one - it is far from unknown, for example, for participants in online games to adopt identities of a gender other than their own. Interestingly, it is more common for men to adopt female identities than vice versa - see below:

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus

Clearly work environments would demand a far more structured approach to digital representation of oneself - and, I would suspect, a dress code. Although I have enjoyed being a tall, willowy Goth in the past, I think my business contacts would find it somewhat confusing!

Marilyn Booth:

Anne, Ruth

We could have this conversation off the blog ;-D but I thought I would point you both and blog readers to the work of Kate O'Riordan on "bio-digital identities" - she takes a gendered slant on this and it all sounds interesting (http://www.sussex.ac.uk/mediastudies/profile30746.html).

There are definite advantages to hybridity, as I'm sure reading scientists will tell us ;-D

As for the Virtual identity issue, do you think there will come a time when avatars will just "be" and gender will cease to become an issue at all in virtual spaces? At the last UKRC conference, Wendy Schulz highlighted the fascinating work of the Health & Safety Executive, in imagining a world very like those explored in fictions of say William Gibson and Margaret Atwood - highly immersive, characterised by a focus on biotech and the ability to "fix" any aspect of one's personality or body, with attendant poistive and negative outcomes for work, social and school life. If that world materialises, I suspect that people will need more than just STEM skills to work effectively. What do you think people could be doing now to prepare for that?

Anya:

I cannot imagine a world where all the meanings we give to gender are stripped away. But rather than turn to virtual worlds, I think writing online is really a very immediate way to communicate without all the visual clues we normally rely on. It’s different to the old experience of reading and writing letters because it is more immediate and spontaneous: you can get a real feeling of minds meeting. And you can be anonymous or change sex without all the hassle of having an avatar.

larry:

Hi Anne,

When I first read your bio-bite, I thought that "hybrid" was perhaps not the most apt choice of term, preferring myself the term, "interdisciplinary" and viewed you as an enthusiastic interdisciplianian, though I admit that this doesn't sound quite right. But on reflection, I think your choice of term to more apt than mine.

There is a down side, I think, to your choice of term (hybrid) which does not appear to fit you at all. Some biological hybrids, like tiglons and mules, are infertile. and it is quite clear that you are not. Since my choice of terminology is less apt than yours, I am at a loss in this respect.

more importantly, I would like to congratulate you on sticking to your hybridian guns, as it has taken place in a society that values specialization, sometimes at no small cost, either to the generalist or the society itself. Specialists are needed, but, just as much, we need generalists like yourself. Welcome to the club.

larry:

Anne, I am also a fan of Gibson though sometimes I find his prose a little stolid. That doesn't stop me reading him, however.

I wonder whether you have read No Sense of Place: The Impact of the Electronic Media on Social Behavior by Joshua Meyrowitz. It's from 1987 but not necessarily out of date because of that. I liked it.

For beautiful digital graphics, may I suggest Visual Explanation, and Beautiful Evidence by Ed Tufte?

larry:

Anne, I have just come across this and noticed it, stimulated by what you wrote. I haven't read it but the title is wonderful -- The Toothpaste of Immortality: Self-Construction in the Consumer Age (Woodrow Wilson Center Press) by Elemér Hankiss. It has been translated into English from Hungarian.

Anne:

Firstly, many thanks for actually reading my ramblings. I'll try and answer your comments bit by bit, not necessarily in order.

Anya, totally agree that writing online is fascinating, partly because it challenges our assumptions about all sorts of issues relating to the narrative form and to the relationship between writer and audience.

For some time there have been numerous theories about the meaning that a reader brings to the text, and I'm no expert, so I won't attempt to go through them. I'd only say that the resulting fluidity and ambivalence this fact lends to the interpretation of a text is something I find challenging and exciting, rather than a threat to the value of the integrity of the word.

I'm also intrigued by the fact that a text can now operate across a number of different platforms, ranging from short stories written to be downloaded to mobile phones, to flash fiction on Twitter and chaotic fiction's role in alternate reality games. In case, you're interested, I include a few links below. I think the great thing is that the possibilities are only limited by our ingrained habits. Having said that, I do still love books and own far too many of them. If you are a fellow bibliophile and haven't already read it, I'd thoroughly recommend "The Library at Night" by Alberto Manguel.

http://www.metro.co.uk/metrolife/books/638244-modern-short-stories-from-your-mobile

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/new-iphone-app-promises-short-story-renaissance-684346

http://www.flashfictiononline.com/news/2008/12/nano-flash-twitter-fiction.html

Chaotic fiction:

http://www.unfiction.com/compendium/2006/11/10/undefining-arg/

Anne:

Larry, I've been checking out Ed Tufte's work and it looks intriguing, in fact I'm sorely tempted to get myself to the States to attend one of his courses!

Thank you too for the details of the books by Meyrowitz and Hankiss. No, I haven't come across them, but I'm certainly going to add them to my list to read in the near future.

Lucy:

Hi Anne,

I am impressed by the active approach you take to refreshing and expanding your skills and knowledge. How do you fit it all in?!

Ruth Wilson (moderator):

Hi Anne and everyone else,

There are so many interesting links here - I need some time off to explore it all! It feels like there are some very surreal experiments going on.

One of your references, Anne, says that virtual worlds heighten our awareness of our physical world, and often they end up replicating the world we know and not leaping off into strange and different identities.

So Marilyn, when you wonder about work encounters in virtual worlds, perhaps they tend to be conformist. Though I remember hearing once that hierarchies can be undermined online, because you don’t always know who someone is: the things that tell us someone's status, such as gender, dress code, size, age etc can all alter. And someone junior may be much more adept in a virtual world than someone senior.

Melissa:

Hi Anne,
What a fascinating combination of interests! Do your Victorian studies shed light on your very 21st century work and personal interests?

Anne:

Hello everyone, I hope you enjoyed the weekend - making no reference to the unfortunate sporting event that occurred. About the Victorian studies, I suppose I am drawn to the period because they were such a confused and disparate bunch. Darwin read Milton, Florence Nightingale was fascinated by statistics and the century produced a remarkable crop of weird cults. It was also an era of wonderful scientific advances and some outstanding examples of "bad science", some of which had a profound impact on women's lives. Dr Henry Maudsley, for example, wrote in 1874 that the intellectual training of adolescent girls would harm their reproductive systems and their brains. Even Emily Davies, one of those often forgotten heroines of the movement for women's education in the 19th century, was sufficiently worried about the potential damage to female health that her proposals might have to seek advice from medical experts. And this "superstition" about women's physical fragility lasted even into the 20th century. When women's events were introduced at the 1928 Olympics, the longest race was 800m, however there was an outcry because many of the finishers collapsed, and as a result, they were not permitted to run the distance again in the Olympics until 1960. It was only in 1972 that women could run 1500m at the Olympics and 1988 before they could run a 5000m. Today women regularly participate in marathons without it seeming in the least remarkable, but it took a long time to obtain "permission" to do so. Interestingly a woman did in fact successfully run the Marathon course at the revived Olympic Games in 1896, but as women were not allowed to participate in the Games, she was not permitted to enter the stadium.

Anne:

Lucy, about fitting in learning stuff, part of it is the inevitable result of having a long commute to and from work most days. I tend to have a few books on the go at the same time. This is partly because the different sizes of font seems to be easier on the eyes in a rocking train, and also because I'm never too sure what sort of mood I'll be in during the journey, as far as subject matter goes. At the present moment I'm hopping between a wonderful book on John Ruskin, which revisits the buildings he described in "The Stones of Venice", and "Unseen Academicals" by Terry Pratchett. At home - because it's too bulky to carry around - I'm reading Michel Pastoureau's "Blue: The History of a Colour", and "The Open Brand" by Kelly Mooney, about the use of digital media in brand development. A lot of the most fascinating subjects I've come across have been the result of serendipitous encounters. I was converted to Stravinsky by the sight of the percussion section in action in "The Rite of Spring" in the Albert Hall. I fell in love with Barbara Hepworth's work in a small and totally unexpected art gallery in the Orkneys. And the internet too has provided many opportunities of stumbling across ideas and information that I might otherwise never have discovered.

Rachel:

Hi Anne

You mention chldren and virtual worlds. I am a mother of 2 sons both of whom love computer games - especially if they include virtual environments in which they can move around and meet friends. Unfortunately I find that the majority of such computer games on the market are war scenarios where they learn to virually kill and maim an enemy. Even games that are aimed at relatively young children (my youngest is 11) or that have a historical context - such as Ancient Rome - are about building armies and attacking other civilisations. It is a shame that such wonderful technology has such a destructive use. I have tried to take a stand against this and have refused to buy such games - but I find that my sons can play them at all their friends houses. There seems to be little interest in the impact of the internet/technology on children's exposure to unsuitable material. I wondered if you you have a view on this?

Pollyanna:

Hi Anne,
I am currently completely unaware of what this ‘virtual world’ is really all about! I almost feel that I could perhaps like my time there, but I worry that I already spend too much time on social network sites and this virtual stuff could be all encompassing. Would it be a detriment to my ‘real world!’? I would however, love to get your feedback about advertising in the virtual world. Have you come across this? and in your mind, is it/could it be successful? Could it be successful in targeting women that are interested in IT?

Marion :

Dear Anne,
Thank you very much for all the links and the conversation stimulated by your writings on this blog. You really have a 'hinterland' (in the Denis Healey sense). It would be interesting to hear of any examples of the way your wide interests and reading have helped your policy work at BIS, especially in relation to women, careers and science.

Pam:

Hmm, Ruth, are you having a dig at me for turning up to Second Life events as a robot? You may, on the other hand, have detected that in Real Life I am not that interested in clothes.

I am enjoying the new ways of doing things, for instance the Women's Budget Group had a group Skype message chat during the chancellor's speech letting us listen to TV in the comfort of our own homes but have a national discussion between scattered experts (and me) at the same time.

However, take-up seems quite slow. Facebook etc have exploded in a few years, but there doesn't seem to be any user interest in mailing lists like Daphnet moving to more modern techniques, although Dawn is disseminating great stuff with the WES1919 Twitter feed. Ruth's organising of the Second Life meetings has been interesting and useful, and I am looking forward to more innovations from her.

Anne, I am really pleased that the Skills and Diversity unit is working on the future of our changing world.

Anne:

Sorry for the silence - I've been buried in Victorian history again. Rachel, if it is any comfort, I believe that the face of computer games is changing, perhaps in part owing to the fact that 40% of computer gamers are now female. There are a number of virtual worlds that are specifically designed for children, where the content is moderated to ensure that undesirable behaviour and inappropriate content are promptly dealt with when they rear their ugly heads. I attended a presentation last week about a comparatively new virtual space for young children where they were at pains to stress that they moderate it 24/7 and that advertising is not permitted. What we really need are more women designing computer games that aren't "first person shooters", but which use the technology in an imaginative but constructive way. The success of the WII has obliged the computer games industry to rethink its commercial strategies. At a conference last year, a senior executive from one of the world's largest computer games companies admitted that the massive popularity of games which people could play together in groups had demolished their previous strategy, which had been simply to produce ever better graphics in the annual editions of their games. And to risk a dangerous generalisation, women are rather good at social skills - so maybe now is the time for all those budding girl programmers and digital artists to step forward?!

Anne:

Hi Pollyanna. About advertising in virtual spaces - it's a tricky area. Just to give an example - I once organised a tour of Second Life for our then Permanent Secretary, and his question was - where are all the people? I was obliged to explain that since a lot of them at that time were based in the USA - this was a few years' ago - they were quite possibly asleep! So if you wish to target specific groups, you will need to find sites where people with those interests tend to go and pick a time when they are likely to be there. There are functions within Second Life, for example, which allow you to publicise events that you are organising and identify groups with relevant interests. Ruth, who moderates this blog, must have a wealth of experience on this area which she could share - perhaps UKRC could organise an event for this purpose? And maybe also a guided tour of a few of the better-known sites such as the one belonging to NASA?

A number of large organisations have set up islands in Second Life for the purpose of raising their profiles with target demographic groups, but this has been PR rather than advertising or sales.

Anne:

Hi Marion, one thing which my reading has made very clear to me is the way in which science and technology have transformed and continue to transform society, but also the fact that many of our social preoccupations shift at a far slower pace. In the 19th century, parents were worried that their daughters sat in their rooms reading stuff from Mudie's lending library that would corrupt their morals and rot their brains; nowadays parents worry that their daughters sit in their rooms reading stuff from the internet that ... In the latter half of the 19th century people were complaining that life was moving at too fast a pace and that everything was changing at an ever increasing speed - sound familar? So one thing I have observed is that people will assimilate new ideas and new technology when they are ready for them, which isn't necessarily as quickly as one might expect - timing is crucial if an initiative is to succeed.

Looking back at the struggles that women underwent to gain the right to access higher education I think it is right to celebrate the achievements of those women who have achieved the highest honours in their professions, but I also think we should recognise the vitally important work carried out by those in lower profile posts and stress the enjoyment and satisfaction that those women get from their jobs. Perceptions of jobs in science are still bound up with stereotypes - scientists with white lab coats, technologists in the basement fixing other people's kit - and we need to raise awareness of just how many jobs in practically every sector are available to women with the necessary skills and qualifications.

Anne:

Hi Pam. Part of what I find so hopeful about the digital environment is the fact that it offers opportunities for communication that would not otherwise exist. I can't help wondering whether some of those grounded by volcanic ash recently were logging on to the internet to conduct their conferences online, perhaps using Skype as you yourself did. At a time when environmental impacts of all sorts are appearing in the headlines, hopefully people are starting to think about alternative ways to interact in the future.

About social networking, it is now no longer a "casual" technology, but is being used in an increasingly sophisticated way as part of many integrated marketing plans. Possibly one of the concerns about using some of the existing networks is that of data protection - EU legislation is relatively stringent, which is not always the case elsewhere - you need to check the wording of the policy concerned.